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Need help with debugging and importing a CM3D2 model to VR Chat.

Discussion in 'Avatars' started by WanderingYouth, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. WanderingYouth

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    Hello and greetings! I'm just one of the many newcomers to VR.

    This year I decided that it's time for me to jump into VR as I have always found it to be fascinating. The info from CES showed a bunch of new VR headsets are coming out this year so I figure it is time. It just so happens that VR Chat and all its unique denizens have me fascinated for this game. It's content creation potential also has my creator fingers itching.

    I have watched a bunch of videos online regarding this matter, however I have run into numerous issues which the videos can't really help me. I currently using Blender to tweak and tinker around with a model I ripped from the game CM3D2 [NSFW] along with Adobe Mixamo and the CATS blender plugin in an effort to get it SFW and ready for Unity. I ripped the model from the game into a OBJ file where I then imported into Blender and then exported as a FBX. After which I used Adobe Mixamo to rig the model. I brought the now rigged FBX back into Blender using the CATS plugin to do a quick fix on the model. When I check the model's textures I noticed a issue with the eyes and eyebrows.

    Below is a picture of the first problem I encountered. The iris highlights and the eyebrows are not working properly and I don't have a clue as to what the cause as I am completely new to Blender and 3D modeling in general.
    img20180129034553.png Iris issues.PNG

    ***Nevermind, I figured it out. Some of the textures and materials were not using transparency and alpha cutouts correctly.​
     
    #1 WanderingYouth, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  2. Frostique

    Frostique New Member

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    The texture problems you are having can be fixed by finicking with shaders in Unity. Depending on the texture and mesh you will need to use one of opaque, cutout, or fade variants of shaders. There are also numerous bone issues that come with the export from CM3D2, expecially in the fingers. Feel free to add me on discord and I can assist you further there. I've uploaded several models from CM3D2 to my own VRChat account and would be happy to help.
     
  3. WanderingYouth

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    Thanks for the offer. The plugin I am using for the game doesn't include the bones when pulled into an OBJ file. I have been using Adobe Mixamo in putting in a basic bone structure. Is there a better way to rig a model with bones besides Mixamo?

    Finger bones and colliders would be something I love to try and do next, however I'll probably focus on getting my model optimized for the VR Chat while looking decent in quality.
     
  4. Frostique

    Frostique New Member

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    Yes, there is a plugin called ModelExportMMD_v3, it rips the textures and bones and creates a .pmx file. Made for people who want to use their CM3D2 models in MMD, but we can repurpose MMDs for VRChat.
     
  5. WanderingYouth

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    I think I heard of that of plugin, however I thought it was all in Japanese. Do you have a link to said plugin?
     
  6. Frostique

    Frostique New Member

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    Sure, I don't know if it's allowed to link it here but here it is.
    http://www.mediafire.com/file/1gr5wsjjmbva8ha/ModelExportMMD_v3.dll
    To open the export menu, press F8 while in game. Make sure you click T-Pose, and that Export Textures and Export Pose are checked. You will have to manually type in where you want the files to save. To finalize it, press Export .pmx.
     
  7. WanderingYouth

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    Thanks for the link. Apparently, I was already using that plugin, but it was v1 where it does not include bones on the export.

    So I tried to export my model as a PMX and I can see the issue you state a few post above. Wow, I never knew CM3D2 models had that many bones in the models. How does one go about sorting out this mess of bones on the model?


    Apparently either with the newest VRChat patch or newest CATs plugin, we no longer need to re-rig the fingers. You can completely skip this step and it look and work perfectly fine in the game.
     

    Attached Files:

    #7 WanderingYouth, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  8. Frostique

    Frostique New Member

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    Right so first things first, you might want to try having CATS blender plugin fix your bones. It'll get rid of what it can hopefully without ruining the bone structure. It'll also organize the bones nicely and named properly. What CATS won't do is parent accessories. Your hat, ribbon, and scarf are likely parented to the Hip bone, as is usually the case with these models. You'll need to parent the hat and ribbon to the head and the scarf to the neck or chest, test it in pose mode. This will also be the case for any cowlicks you have, and the possibility of front and back hair being parented wrong is there.
    The biggest concern about bones after parenting everything are the fingers. The fingers are broken if you don't fix them. If you leave them as they are and upload it to VRChat as is, the tips of the fingers will bend forward like you're trying to claw someone's eyes out.

    T̶o̶ ̶f̶i̶x̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶,̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶g̶o̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶w̶o̶ ̶b̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶f̶i̶n̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶e̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶"̶C̶o̶n̶n̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶"̶ ̶b̶o̶x̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶a̶b̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶p̶e̶r̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶n̶d̶o̶w̶.̶ ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶o̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶j̶o̶i̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶e̶s̶t̶i̶m̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶.̶
    I was just messing around with the bones, you don't need to check the connected box. You just need to move the tails of the bones(the ones sticking up in the air, to be at the exact position of the head of the next bone.
    2.JPG
    In this example, I am moving the highlighted tail of the first bone to match with the head(the one connected with the dashed line) of the second bone. So they match up as seen between the second and third bone.

    There are small indications on the skin that can help you out with placement.
    For any other bone placement issues, you'll just have to eye it out. The torso, legs, and arms are usually good. The hair might be in awkward spots.

    (I'm working on the hands of a CM3D2 model right now and will share screen shots)

    I through the model in unity with one hand fixed and the other untouched.
    [​IMG] This is the hand that I fixed.
    [​IMG]And this is the hand I didn't, if it looks like this you'll still need to adjust the bones.
     

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    #8 Frostique, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  9. WanderingYouth

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    Is there a site or video you could recommend me for a basic tutorial of bone parenting and such. I should learn the basics first and then get back to you for further support otherwise I would taking too much of your time as you would need to show every single step of the way.
     
    #9 WanderingYouth, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  10. Frostique

    Frostique New Member

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    Sorry for the lateness in my reply.

    Yes, I suggest looking up Tupper and Kayla Jayde, they both have decent avatar uploading videos. I personally learned from Tuppers videos, they are clean and decently organized. It's common to pause and rewind a lot, so don't be discouraged if you feel you are struggling. I'm still learning myself even though I've been uploading for some time.
     
  11. WanderingYouth

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    A few questions, now.

    Is there a way to make my model go into the traditional T pose? I'm trying to do the fingers, but it's somewhat a PITA because her arms are slanted downwards. Do I need all the bones in the hands or are there some I need to remove because VR Chat doesn't use them?

    ***Nevermind, I figured it out. Do it manually in pose mode,move the shoulder and elbow bone on one side of the arm to make it look straight as possible in 2D mode. Copy the bone properties and then paste it to the other side of the arm.
    Hand Bones.PNG
    How does this look so far? Before I go on, I need to ask this. Am I doing this correctly by editing all the bones in Edit mode?​

    ***Bones for the whole model now looks pretty good. Hands are rigged properly now and so is pretty much everything else. Now I'm having issues with decimation. It's seems like CM3D2 models turn out quite ugly and glitchy after the quick decimation in the CATS plugin. Leggings, underwear and the clothes are gltiching in and out of each other.
    Body Decimation.PNG Face Decimation.PNG
    Is there a manual way to decimate? Is it better to decimate in Blender or Unity? Got any tips to maintain the model quality after decimation?
    Use the modifiers Decimation>>>Triangulate>>>Decimation on the mesh in edit mode for manual decimation.
     
    #11 WanderingYouth, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  12. Lhun

    Lhun Member

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    It's really common for all models to come out looking not so good for vrchat since the game requires a very low poly limit at the moment.

    However, if you keep the model under 60k poly it actually doesn't matter too much. What I personally like to do is cut out the parts of the model I'm okay with decimating quite a lot, then decimate that, then merge it back with the higher poly count pieces.

    I use metaseq though, which is kinda working backwards for vrchat, lol (most models for CM3d and mmd in general are made in maya or metasequoia) but you can do the same thing in blender.

    Make a copy of your mesh, cut off the stuff that goes wonky (head, hands, certain dress pieces, etc) and leave the things that can have less geometry and still look good - shoes, legs, often arms, etc. Decimate those things and then merge the more detailed stuff back into the mesh, fix your armature(bones) if necessary and the world is your oyster.

    A side note is that one of the reasons why MMD and the PMX format is so popular for humanoids is because it's rigging and weight painting is easy as hell, just ask digitrevx. Because it's based on a physics model designed for virtual humans only there are a million shortcuts for doing that kind of work and it's very rapid.

    That in turn translates into vrchat, because unity's reverse ik and mechanim animations system is incredibly similar to bullet physics - which all follow rules that are based on how real humans move and respond to force and connections in the body.
     
  13. WanderingYouth

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    I see this mentioned quite often anywhere related to VR chat and I get mixed comments about it. I have seen many videos about importing models into the game talk about this issue too. As long as you heavily optimize the "draw call" the poly count will not affect performance much at all. I lack any knowledge about the subject, so I'll just take veterans word for it.

    How does one upload a model that has a poly count higher than the limit? I also saw this question thrown around a lot and yet no one offers a clear answer on how to do it and is it legal or not. Currently on my model it has 41k polygons, the amount I can drop it down to before her leggings and clothes start to glitch out is at 32k polygons.

    Any possible chance you can direct me to a link that specifically shows a person how to do this? I'm still a newcomer to blender and 3D modeling.

    Weight painting. Am I correct to assume that weight painting is important if I want certain meshes to be affected by physics? This would be applied to objects such as clothes to act and move like real clothing would in the real world?

    Now that you brought this up. This actually might be the solution to an issue I just had when I was testing out my model in VR Chat. Her legs would just clip right her skirt just by walking and the skirt looks really stiff and not natural looking.
     
    #13 WanderingYouth, Feb 2, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  14. Lhun

    Lhun Member

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    no, what you're thinking of is dynamic bone, which is an addon allowed in vr chat that allows for physics and collision on objects to prevent that kind of thing.

    Weight painting is where you "pair" a bone to the mesh itself - telling your avatar which bones have an effect on which parts of the mesh.
     
  15. WanderingYouth

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    I have been having strange issues where pieces of my avatars hair or clothes are having huge holes in it. I did some manual decimation in Blender and was able to get the vertice count to the required spec and the model looked fine and dandy. Does VR Chat do additional decimation once the avatar is upload?
    Unity Before upload.PNG Capture.PNG
    The left picture is the modeled rendered inside Unity.
    So the front and rear hair bones were parent to the the face and not the head. Parent the hair bones to the head fixed this.
     
    #15 WanderingYouth, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  16. Lhun

    Lhun Member

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    Generally no, but sometimes you can't see when there's holes after you've decimated due to the default pose of hte avatar.

    I do everything manually but what you could do is move the model in the avatar section or in the rotate section. Sometimes when you move around in the game it exposes verts that are actually hidden from your view after decimation.
     
  17. WanderingYouth

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    Do you mean to say move the model around in Pose Mode in Blender to check to see if everything looks fine? If that is the case, I somewhat have been previously. I usually move the head around to make sure the hair and necklace is correctly attached to their respective bones.
     
  18. GalaxyMaiden

    GalaxyMaiden New Member

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    I've been trying to do this as well and I having a problem with see through parts. How do I fix this?
     

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  19. WanderingYouth

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    The picture being shown. Is that model in Blender or Unity?
     
  20. GalaxyMaiden

    GalaxyMaiden New Member

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    Its in Blender, I new to all this so I have no clue what am doing.