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VRChat Hearing Loss Bug - A Staple of Developer Communication

Discussion in 'General' started by Casuallynoted, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. Casuallynoted

    Casuallynoted Member

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    For some context, this thread was brought up after a private, invite-only VRChat event in which some core content creators were invited to talk about issues present in the app. Originally I brought up a recording of the developer response but as concerns were raised I have removed the recording and replaced it with the Canny listing instead.

    I came in with a question about a bug that's been around for four months that causes users to be exposed to extremely high decibel noise, straight into their VR headset. This caused one of my friends to lose hearing. The bug is still present in the app and is incredibly easy to activate, to the point where someone actually managed to get it onto an avatar with slight modification, exposing over 20 users to this bug inside of a club world. To date there has been no recognition of the bug on VRChat's end, and the post on their bug tracker has five upvotes from regular users and no comments from VRChat's programming team. They haven't pulled the script and they haven't added anything to check and make sure the codecs are okay before streaming it ingame.

    While they claim to have no knowledge of my friend's hearing loss, this conversation did happen inside of the old VRChat moderation text channel, and while the channel has been hidden since they moved to a full server in late January, I am going to be finding screenshots of this as well. As a user who has enjoyed VRChat for the past two years, the lack of professionalism from the lead developer is incredibly apparent here, and whether it's an official or unofficial VRChat event, that communication simply should not have happened.
     
    #1 Casuallynoted, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  2. just weeb

    just weeb New Member

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    I experienced that fun several times by now and jeez I'm always surprised my headphones still work after that. In total I have a very bad sight on the devs too - sadly - because they feel incredible unprofessional with their lack of communication towards the community, their reports appeal so randomly almost isolated that it's hard to get some good feelings towards them.
     
    #2 just weeb, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  3. Casuallynoted

    Casuallynoted Member

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    Here’s a link to a video Printer recorded showcasing this bug for those who’ve never experienced it. And this is with him using an external speaker to manually turn the volume down.

     
  4. Casuallynoted

    Casuallynoted Member

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    #4 Casuallynoted, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  5. Psych

    Psych Resident Nerd
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    Hey Casually! I'm really sorry to have seen how this went down...Ron could have spoken in a different way to convey his thoughts instead of cutting you off. You're an amazing member of the community, and I've been especially sad to hear that your events are not public anymore.

    As a fellow event host, I understand your frustration with the updates and things that occur to mess up events. We have all developed extremely strong feelings towards VRChat, and that increases the frustration these glitches can create.

    That being said, I think there is a larger perspective through which one could view the current state of relations between the developers and the community. As someone who have been with VRchat for over 3 years, and remember the DK2 days of hanging with the dev team, I've had the chance to see them grow. I'm also more aware of the foundation of the company, and the general attitudes of those who created this application.

    Over the past few years I've also attended annual conferences with the VRChat team, and observed how the group dynamic is developing. With this perspective, and knowledge that every person on the team (including Ron) is passionate towards helping the community, it helps me fee l less frustrated in the kinds of situations you've described.

    Yes, Ron could have spoken differently in one interaction. But from his perspective, he's taking hours every Thursday to meet with the community and hear their thoughts. Sometimes he is extremely time limited, and that can also cause stress/anxiety - imagine if you have a list of 50 different features/bugs on a timeline, working on implementing them, but are taking 1-3 hours to meet with community members. He doesn't have to do that, but he does because he (and VRChat) cares deeply about the community.

    This perspective has also helped me to view the frustrating things you mentioned as reasons for canceling your public event. We've had Endgame canceled, delayed, and more from bugs or updates that broke things. But I know the team is working their hardest to fix these things. It's important to remember that we're in early access - they have to prioritize. And overall, Endgame has gone really well thanks to the responsiveness of the team in pushing updates so that the next week's episode can run smoothly.

    The massive recent growth of VRChat has forced them to develop new systems of communication, explore options, update the app (with inevitable bugs), and fix things that break. That is why VRChat is in early access, and these kinds of community issues are things they are working through.

    I think it's also important to remember that the reason you care so much about VRChat is because of the code these developers have written. They've facilitated an experience in virtual reality that exists nowhere else. Often we complain of the issues, but rarely express gratitude for the existence of VRChat in the first place.

    I think your meditation event is an awesome thing that added to the positive mental health effects of VRChat, and was very sad to see you refrain from making it public. Despite this, you continue to have an amazingly positive effect on the community, and always make me smile whenever I catch you in game.

    I hope that your frustrations can be solved, and perhaps some more perspective on the people behind the curtain can increase your tolerance for mistakes/issues related to VRChat.
     
  6. Casuallynoted

    Casuallynoted Member

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    I totally understand where you’re coming from. Part of me showing how grateful I’ve been for the app has been me helping people get avatars and worlds set up and learning how to make custom content, and actively seeking out users who had a bad first VRC experience to show them why the app is so awesome.

    I have no personal issues with how Pill handled this situation. In terms of Ron, however- as someone who is introverted and who has had trouble with public speaking in the past, writing down the question so I could organize my thoughts was the absolute most comfortable way I could’ve done that. Being critical of the way I’ve formatted my question helps no one and I’m just surprised the lead developer of a social VR app lacks a certain amount of social awareness. There’s a way to tell someone they’re over time in a public meeting without being critical of the way they’re communicating, as seen in the way discussions in Endgame are handled. In this case I do feel Pill and Gunter and other admins are concerned about this issue. From my perspective however I don’t believe the way Ron responded to me implies that he takes it legitimately seriously, especially given that as of right now there has still been no sort of announcement made or even an update on the Canny post from months ago saying something like “We’re aware and looking into this.”. If I wasn’t one of the select few who got into this event in the first place, I likely wouldn’t have even had the opportunity to ask.

    I’m fully aware of how awesome VRC has been and the amount of time that’s gone into developing it, which is why historically I’ve said very little and oftentimes am not vocal about things changed in updates like some are. This is an exception because of the irl risk involved.
     
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  7. Casuallynoted

    Casuallynoted Member

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    Seven days since the last post on this, to date no developer response.
     
  8. Casuallynoted

    Casuallynoted Member

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    Seven more days. So far a little over two weeks, in addition to the four months it’s already taken. Once again, even a quick developer response of “We know this exists and are looking into it.” on the Canny would be something.
     
  9. Psych

    Psych Resident Nerd
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    Hi Casually - I don't think this is an effective way try and communicate with the VRChat team. Recording someone when they've asked not to be recorded, sharing and complaining about it on a public forum, and then asking for a response is not likely to work. Instead, I'd suggest trying to reach out individually or privately to someone from the team to ask about the issue if you're concerned about it. TBH I've been surprised with your chosen method of communication, given how strong of a force for positivity you are within the VRChat community! I hope this comment doesn't come across negatively, but saw that you've posted a few times now asking why people haven't responded, so figured I'd provide some insight for that.
     
  10. Casuallynoted

    Casuallynoted Member

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    I absolutely understand what you're saying, this isn't my preferred form of communication. The problem is that I have contacted individuals several times over several months. I don't think there's a member of the team I haven't talk about this issue with, and that other users haven't discussed it with either. But to be honest, more often than not mine and other users communications about this very harmful issue are totally ignored. My intention here is to make users as a whole aware that the issue exists (which VRChat still hasn't done yet) so that they know to avoid largely untested worlds with YouTube panels, and also to show that not just one but several bug reports have been filed and that multiple attempts at communication have been made, with seemingly no response. I don't even use the app anymore but I am concerned for the users that do.